suicide as socially acceptable

[burntcopper]

okay, this is a bit of a follow-on from the previous post, but I also have the Rome screensaver at work, so historical context kind of jumped into my head.

I'm wondering when it was that suicide, at least in the UK, became socially unacceptable, the 'coward's way out'. Because from what I've read in the way of celtic legends, roman, greek and egyptian society, suicide used to be seen as the honorable way out, especially in the upper echelons of society. I don't know about saxon/anglo/jute, because pretty much you get exposed to of the Dark Ages history starts at about a century pre-Norman Conquest, and you don't get taught much more than battles/ransom requests/political motivations/taxation. Is it an entirely judeo-christian construct, or a societal construct of post-renaissance/georgian/victorian society?

Any info would be good.

ETA on checking wikipedia, it appears in the fifth century St. Augustine disapproved whole-heartedly of suicide as an extrapolation of 'thou shalt not kill', people took this to extremes, and by 533 you couldn't get a christian burial. Still wondering about saxon/anglo/jute attitudes, since as we all know, they were nasty pagans for a good while. Plus there's vikings. Hmm. I know they practiced ritual self-sacrifice in the Odin cults...

Comments

[annajaneclare.livejournal.com]

I'd imagine it's a lot to do with Christianity, actually. Probably worth digging around to find the chapter and verse where it explicitly says offing yourself is wrong. (If it ever does.)

Interesting question, though. I wonder how the issue of suicide would have sat with the Church in the later years of the Empire when you effectively had a Roman Christian church.

[jamjar.livejournal.com]

It's kind of funny, really, because if you believe in the Christian Hell, suicide is the worst punishment, no chance of repentence, straight down, which makes it being seen as "cowardly" kind of odd.

WHat is interesting is that there's increasing evidence of suicidal behaviour being a condition in its own right, not just an effect of other psychiatric/psychological conditions. Studies presented at the annual meeting of the Society for Neuroscience showed that people who commited suicide had distinct differences n brain chemistry -independent of whatever other psychiatric disorders they had.

I don't know if you can read it, but the article's here: http://www.nature.com/news/2006/061016/full/061016-1.html

But it's very interesting, and mayeven explain why some people become suicidal as a side-effect of taking antidepressents.

[sheldrake.livejournal.com]

I just wrote a whole load of stuff and lost it. But it boils down to me recommending the book The Noonday Demon by Andrew Solomon, which I'm reading at the moment, and which has a section devoted to the history of depression and mental illness, and another, incredibly thought-provoking one, on suicide.

[lissy111.livejournal.com]

They always have taught us in med school that it was to do with the church, with it being a sin and all. It was then made illegal to commit suicide (which is kinda dumb, what are you gonna do?!), and so all people that attempted suicide were thus also committing a crime until recently. Part of why we can't perform euthanasia is due to the church which keep blocking it, but there are also fears about the controls required for such things. As for the brain chemistry thing, depending on what type of mental illness you have will determine the brain chemistry. A person with depression will have different brain chemistry to a manic person, or a schizophrenic. I wouldn't be at all surprised if people with depression have the same brain chemistry abnormalities as those who commit suicide. There is also a big difference between those people who 'attempt' to commit suicide (in whom the intention is not to die but to get attention - it happens a lot, weird patterns of behaviour start to emerge) and those who genuinely wish to die and thus plan it, leave notes, do it properly. The big debate is: for those who intend to die and make serious attempts and will be successful eventually, is it fair to stop them? Should we perhaps help them instead, allowing them to leave this world in a nicer, pain-free way instead of some of the ways they end up choosing out of desperation? Do we have any right to force life upon a person, where does their right to choose extend to?

[cangetmad.livejournal.com]

people that attempted suicide were thus also committing a crime until recently

I remember reading recently (I think it was in Unspeak by Steven Poole) that more than one ASBO had been taken out forbidding people from engaging in specific suicidal behaviours (one woman forbidden to stand on a bridge). So, apparently it goes around and comes around.

[snowballjane.livejournal.com]

This, from the University of Oslo, has some good information in the history/cuture section.

[odangochan.livejournal.com]

There's a couple of verses, though without the Gideon Bible they gave me at school, which helpfully had an index for "places to look if you're thinking about..." I can't tell you where.

They all said pretty much the same thing, though. God made your body and you don't have the right to kill it, only he does.

That pissed me off. Actually I think it led at least partially to the loss of my Christian faith. It's MY gorram body and I'll do what I like with it.