burntcopper (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
burntcopper) wrote2010-02-22 01:07 pm
burntcopper) wrote2010-02-22 01:07 pm
....things you never really needed to see
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/feb/20/ten-rules-for-writing-fiction-part-one - part 'how to keep going', part 'don't do this'.
One of Elmore Leonard's, Avoid detailed descriptions of characters, which Steinbeck covered. In Ernest Hemingway's "Hills Like White Elephants", what do the "American and the girl with him" look like? "She had taken off her hat and put it on the table." That's the only reference to a physical description in the story.
Started A Game of Thrones at the weekend, somewhat slow going as it's very dense, and then got completely stalled when it got to the first scene with Beggar King + little sis. For no bloody reason it decided to describe their violet eyes and long silver hair. Seriously. Did we need to know that? The only bloody reason a hair colour should get mentioned is as an identifier by someone else when looking for them ('A glimpse of blonde hair in the crowd') or to clarify how much someone stands out from everyone else in the room - Ursula Le Guin's Wizard of Earthsea doesn't really mention that Ged's people are brown skinned until the Godking's lot come along, when it's pointed out how weird they look in comparison to all the other islanders, since they're the only ones with pale skin, or finally, prophecy-worthy (Bran, Dark is Rising. Note that the Drews rarely get a description, and Will is only described when someone else is looking at him to state how bloody non-descript he is. Others get described as 'tall' or 'welsh farmer's wife'.) Seriously, if no-one else is in the room, and it's 3rd person, we do not need to know what this person looks like. PS, fantasy authors: No fucker has violet eyes if they're human unless they're wearing contacts, magic touched or on drugs that affect their irises. The silver hair is also stretching it unless they've gone prematurely grey.
Okay, I may have mentioned that my cousin is in hock to Simon Cowell. She works on America's Got Talent as a producer. Went over to aunt's for lunch, got utterly stuffed on stew and sticky toffee pudding (for anyone following the Jamie Oliver recipe, it's better if you leave it in there for another 20-25 mins, since aunt put it on too low a temperature and had to leave it in for extra time) were all crashed on couch afterwards. Tabs calls on skype, and it turns out she's in the middle of auditions in Atlanta. latest act comes in, and she turns the laptop round so we can see them. Cue six people in Hampton with hands clamped over their mouths to stop the raucous giggles escaping and alerting anyone else that a bunch of people are watching via laptop. (Tab's faces as she was also trying to keep a straight face were also hysterical) Six blokes in full coloured body stockings dancing to Backstreet Boys. We suspect that they'll get through at least one stage just for the sheer lulz.
Somewhat weirded out but so pleased for Jeremy Renner getting all the attention with Hurt Locker and him getting Hawkeye in Avengers. Con goers may remember him being adorable at a BtVS/Angel convention ages ago as Angel's serial killer first siring. And hey, it's a 39 year-old actor getting a major career boost. No bad here.
Cannot decide whether This or This is the more awesome photo. On the one hand, Joker jumping Bats on a skateboard. On the other, Morgan Freeman + kitty. arrrgh.
off to get boots repaired. wo0t.
ETA: ARSE. Boot soles are stitched on. Gray's Inn place says they don't have the machine to do it and all the other layers are stitched together, so will phone Michael's on proctor st to see if they do it, because wasting half my lunch hour is not something I want to do again tomorrow.
Gah. Sondheim 80th w/maria Friedman, daniel Evans announced. question is whether they announce anyone else, cause the 75th was awesome massivo thing. (aka 'I've just seen Eartha Kitt... :thud:)
One of Elmore Leonard's, Avoid detailed descriptions of characters, which Steinbeck covered. In Ernest Hemingway's "Hills Like White Elephants", what do the "American and the girl with him" look like? "She had taken off her hat and put it on the table." That's the only reference to a physical description in the story.
Started A Game of Thrones at the weekend, somewhat slow going as it's very dense, and then got completely stalled when it got to the first scene with Beggar King + little sis. For no bloody reason it decided to describe their violet eyes and long silver hair. Seriously. Did we need to know that? The only bloody reason a hair colour should get mentioned is as an identifier by someone else when looking for them ('A glimpse of blonde hair in the crowd') or to clarify how much someone stands out from everyone else in the room - Ursula Le Guin's Wizard of Earthsea doesn't really mention that Ged's people are brown skinned until the Godking's lot come along, when it's pointed out how weird they look in comparison to all the other islanders, since they're the only ones with pale skin, or finally, prophecy-worthy (Bran, Dark is Rising. Note that the Drews rarely get a description, and Will is only described when someone else is looking at him to state how bloody non-descript he is. Others get described as 'tall' or 'welsh farmer's wife'.) Seriously, if no-one else is in the room, and it's 3rd person, we do not need to know what this person looks like. PS, fantasy authors: No fucker has violet eyes if they're human unless they're wearing contacts, magic touched or on drugs that affect their irises. The silver hair is also stretching it unless they've gone prematurely grey.
Okay, I may have mentioned that my cousin is in hock to Simon Cowell. She works on America's Got Talent as a producer. Went over to aunt's for lunch, got utterly stuffed on stew and sticky toffee pudding (for anyone following the Jamie Oliver recipe, it's better if you leave it in there for another 20-25 mins, since aunt put it on too low a temperature and had to leave it in for extra time) were all crashed on couch afterwards. Tabs calls on skype, and it turns out she's in the middle of auditions in Atlanta. latest act comes in, and she turns the laptop round so we can see them. Cue six people in Hampton with hands clamped over their mouths to stop the raucous giggles escaping and alerting anyone else that a bunch of people are watching via laptop. (Tab's faces as she was also trying to keep a straight face were also hysterical) Six blokes in full coloured body stockings dancing to Backstreet Boys. We suspect that they'll get through at least one stage just for the sheer lulz.
Somewhat weirded out but so pleased for Jeremy Renner getting all the attention with Hurt Locker and him getting Hawkeye in Avengers. Con goers may remember him being adorable at a BtVS/Angel convention ages ago as Angel's serial killer first siring. And hey, it's a 39 year-old actor getting a major career boost. No bad here.
Cannot decide whether This or This is the more awesome photo. On the one hand, Joker jumping Bats on a skateboard. On the other, Morgan Freeman + kitty. arrrgh.
off to get boots repaired. wo0t.
ETA: ARSE. Boot soles are stitched on. Gray's Inn place says they don't have the machine to do it and all the other layers are stitched together, so will phone Michael's on proctor st to see if they do it, because wasting half my lunch hour is not something I want to do again tomorrow.
Gah. Sondheim 80th w/maria Friedman, daniel Evans announced. question is whether they announce anyone else, cause the 75th was awesome massivo thing. (aka 'I've just seen Eartha Kitt... :thud:)
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So you'd have a connection to Robson Green via cousin and Cowell.
I never saw the kitten and had to look for it now, hah.
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As for character description, it can be really jarring if it’s just dumped in there for no good reason. Then again, I find any writing jarring if it describes things from a disembodied viewpoint. If I had one rule of writing, at least in terms of style, it would be this: stay behind the eyes of your viewpoint character, and don’t come out again until you change character or finish the book.
Removing all description can be equally unsettling, though. It’s one thing to assume the reader will make up their own descriptions, but not everyone can or wants to. Sometimes all you need is a word or two, but unless there’s some kind of visual anchor, it can leave the reader feeling adrift.
It’s a tough balance to get right. I’ve not even come close to doing it right yet… But as one of the rules said: “Only bad writers ever think their work is good enough.”
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I know it's wise to not use words that you need to go running to a dictionary for, but using 'said' at *every turn*?
Personally, I like to hear words like "grumbled" every once and awhile. It gives more depth to a character's voice -- shows they can do something other than speak in a clear, neutral tone all the time. Not everyone can get implied inflections through the word 'said'.
It also certainly shows the writer has a little more creativity than to use one basic word fifty million times in a book/story, especially if it's dialogue heavy.
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Although the benefit of "said" is that it's an invisible word, so the reader doesn't see it fifty million times. If a character instead growls, sighs, screams, lisps, coos, moans, whimpers, snap or sobs their lines, the reader is taken out of the dialogue to figure out how that would sound.
Even worse, it might be unnoticed, taken as a "said", and the reader will have missed what you tried to tell them. If it's not clear from the words, show it explicitly.
You don't need to use "said" in every line of dialogue, anyway. Even if the characters don't all have distinctive voices and modes of speech, you only need to anchor the characters to their words where it might be unclear who is talking.
Given that "use said" and "get rid of adverbs" are the most frequently repeated stylistic admonishons from established writers, edotors and agents, there might be something worth considering there. You're supposed to show, not tell, and the adverbs are almost all about telling.
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Although I also have a special fondness for Will Self’s fifth…
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Not true, it's rare but happens. Liz Taylor is the most famous.
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Definitely agree regarding excessive character description - it can really throw you out of a scene. That said, though, I never really visualise characters when reading/writing (I visualise everything else but characters are more 'personality constructs' of a sort) and find it a bit off-putting when people are determined to force the visual. I write a lot of OCs, but I'm not sure I could tell you what any of them look like beyond basic build and colouring!