Hairspray ST and medieval betrothal -> marriage times

[burntcopper]

Listening to the soundtrack of the Hairspray film. We approve. :g: (I was considering buying the Broadway soundtrack but I heard the samples and... oh god. everyone's voice grates, which admittedly could be related to West End vs. Broadway style. And the original momma Turnblad is deep and gravelly and after I was used to Michael Ball singing it as a woman it's just... no.) Anyway. The film soundtrack is fully bouncy and good - most of the actors don't have powerhouse voices of the stage but they don't grate, which is the main thing. Michelle Pfeiffer, you clearly need to exercise your pipes more, since you had a much more powerful voice in Grease 2. James Marsden : DO MORE MUSICALS. you're way too much fun when you do cheesy (also see Enchanted).

Anyone seen the film? is it worth buying? (play.com has it for a fiver) Did they keep the more explicit actions in?

Question for the historical nuts on the flist. Working out nano timelines and plausibility with regard to real-world politics of medieval era. (I'm trying to make this make sense. Which unfortunately means trying to apply logic and historical implications to a fantasy world. Yes, SUICIDAL. This is going to break my brain. Insanity is a given because this is nano.) Anyway. To shut the Telmarines up a bit and make it look like they're trying for stability and unity, Susan's been betrothed to Caspian (and of course groaning that she managed to avoid a political marriage for fifteen years last time). So. Um. I need to figure out what's plausible for time between announcement of engagement and marriage. The only ones I've been able to find where there was an engagement of much time in royal alliance marriages (admittedly most of my knowledge is the Plantagenet era), it was *years* because the betrothal was declared when they were children, and most of those, they were sent to be a ward of court on announcement of betrothal. The others (engagement as adults), it's a couple of months max. Ages I'm going with for everyone is Peter - 16/17, Susan - 15/16, Edmund - 14, Lucy - 13. Caspian 19-21 since film Caspian is older than Peter (instead of the other way round like he is in the books), so age isn't an issue for Susan getting married straightaway.

help? please?

Comments

[jamjar.livejournal.com]

What is the difference in West-End versus Broadway style? I've assumed that the difference in the ones I've heard was due to the relative quality of the cast, but are there distinct geographical quirks?

[burntcopper.livejournal.com]

All the Broadway stars I've heard tend to have a more nasal edge to their voice (it could be a New York accent thing which everyone adopts) - West End normally goes for more rounded tones, same as Hollywood. I dunno. Idina Menzel vs. Kerry Ellis is a good example - if you search youtube for their rendition of 'I know him so well'. Not all of them do this, and Idina is a pretty weak example, but a lot do, and it grates on my ears something chronic.

If you got to hairspraythemusical.co.uk and listen to the samples on the jukebox of 'Good Morning Baltimore' which is Broadway cast, that's a good example.

[jamjar.livejournal.com]

I've noticed (and disliked) that in some singers, but I didn't really know enough about them to identify it as a regional variation. I think I just assumed they didn't have a particularly pleasant voice.

[gmh.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Thinking of historical precedents, some of the arranged marriages (especially the ones worked out on the battlefield) were arranged and concluded very quickly.

For example; the Treaty of Troyes was signed on May the 21st 1420 (disinheriting Charles VII from the French throne by marrying Henry V to his sister); Henry and Catherine of Valois married on June 2nd 1420.

There are examples of longer engagements than a couple of months, though; Edward I and Eleanor of Castile were contracted to be married at some point in spring 1254, but didn't actually get married until the 1st of November.

Other than that, a few weeks to a few months seems to me fairly reasonable; a number of royal marriages were held up until they could be sanctioned by Papal decree (obviously not an issue here!).

I would say that this is going on English history; I'll see if I've got anything useful on Continental stuff at home.

[tetsubinatu.livejournal.com]

Have you thought of a previous engagement (now politically unwise) contracted while Caspian was a baby that he was unaware of? Maybe Miraz decided to break it, or thought that the girl had died or... lot of possibilities! It could come to light and throw a spanner in the works. Or they could tell the Narnians that they are following Spare Oom customs, which are different *grin*

[delle.livejournal.com]

this is a really good idea, as a previous betrothal was considered as binding as a marriage and while a previous betrothal wouldn't *prevent* a marriage, it would certainly delay one, while the religious leaders or whomever researched and determined whether the new marriage would be legitamate.

[burntcopper.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know the betrothal laws - also see one of the reasons the Princes in the Tower were declared illegitimate, Elizabeth Woodville was engaged to someone else when she married Edward. And Isabella, John's wife. Engaged, kidnapped by John (apparently a very common way to get heiresses), *still* considered lawfully engaged to her previous fiancé when John died.

However, John's a pretty good example of how betrothals go out the window if someone richer/more politically astute comes along.

However, I'm not going down this route - partially because nothing of the sort is mentioned in the books, partly because I have too much other stuff going on, and also it strikes me that the current crop of Telmarines are really isolationist.

[eruvadhril.livejournal.com]

Mum thought that James Marsden was John Barrowman for the first couple of minutes or so that he was on-screen.
I've not seen the show on the stage BECAUSE NOTHING EVER COMES TO PERTH OH MY GODS PLEASE COME WE WILL GIVE YOU MONEY AND CAKE, but the movie was fun. The costumes are fab and the music is, obviously, great.